Who here is buying NV or thermal in the next 365 days?

[Schneeky]

When yer an old competitive benchrest shooter/glass snob, those "details" are what counts a lot of times. Resolution in whatever form generally trumps magnification somewhat, if ya got the time to look at a thing that long. I say it that way 'cause now that we're adding monitors and software between eyes and front glass the mix seems to get a l'il trickier.
I know it's cheesy of me, but ya ever just look at somethin and say to yerself "nossir, don't like it", like Mr Horse? That's me and the Pulsar line. Jury's still out on the Armasight, tho'. Cause the ability to use rechargeable batts is very nice. That's one thing that irks me about IRD. Hardheaded things. I got one shot at this best I can tell and I don't wanna fuggitup over "false economy". I gotta like my gear. ;)
Was checkin into a HD19a for a spotter. It's kindof more of a convenience, I THINK, and still not sure how much weight to put on that option. Kinda seems key from casual observation, tho'. The spotter/dedicated TWS sounds interesting. Still rollin that around the noodle.

rob072770- Whuzzup there, Winston-Salem? (X-old lady's from there) Yup, there be some fat bears roamin around down this way. Enough so ya trip over one out in the road once inna blue moon or so. I think they got a 500+ over to the other hunt club I was in near Shallotte this year. The pigs here are very highly nomadic. With that and property ownership so fragmented it makes for a lot of difficulty and game cameras. Ya know? I'll try my hand at the hunt club down on the Pee Dee. Tubes and barrel's out!

I had three Armasights, two pulsars and one each IRD and ATN. And most simply put I'd say the IRD has the best "detail" (identification) ... and controls are easy to use one handed with gloves but that best "detail" comes at a premium price. I currently have the IR-Hunter mk2, 35mm, 640(60).
Best "bang for the buck" I'd say is Pulsar ... I currently have the XD50A, 2x, 50mm 384(50). The Pulsar has the second best "detail" I've seen and controls also easy to use one handed with gloves. Pulsar was under $3,400.

The Zeus 75mm, 3x, 640(30) came in at #3 in terms of detail
The Apex xd75a 75mm, 3x, 384(50) came in at #4.

My other two thermals are spotters, not rifle scopes though they have reticles and can be used in a pinch
Q-14, 1x, 19mm, 640(30)
Odin, 1x, 17mm, 320(30)

And I had for 15 months, but no longer have
Apollo, 1x, 42mm, 324(60)
It was between the Zeus and the xd75a on image, it was a clipon but could be used as a 1x scope and I used it that way or as a 1x spotter.

==
If I was buying today for your application, I'd go with the pulsar xd50a. NCS and TCT should both be able to get those ... probably others can also.

 

[wigwamitus]

Gotcha ... well if "detail" trumps "bang for the buck" for you ... then leaning towards IRD seems like a good path!

The mk2 IR-Hunter 20mm might be available for street price under $5k ... the 35mm for maybe under $6k if you find the right street.

In my experience Armasight's strength is customer service ... not so much over the phone but solid on always honoring the warranty. The Pulsar 50mm trumped the Zeus 75mm in my testing (including 4 other folks looking thru both).

With the UNV extended battery pack for the mk2 you can use rechargables.

 

[FrankT]

Schneeky, I would suggest you give TLM here a call and talk to him if you are buying one to hunt with.

 

[rob072770]

When yer an old competitive benchrest shooter/glass snob, those "details" are what counts a lot of times. Resolution in whatever form generally trumps magnification somewhat, if ya got the time to look at a thing that long. I say it that way 'cause now that we're adding monitors and software between eyes and front glass the mix seems to get a l'il trickier.
I know it's cheesy of me, but ya ever just look at somethin and say to yerself "nossir, don't like it", like Mr Horse? That's me and the Pulsar line. Jury's still out on the Armasight, tho'. Cause the ability to use rechargeable batts is very nice. That's one thing that irks me about IRD. Hardheaded things. I got one shot at this best I can tell and I don't wanna fuggitup over "false economy". I gotta like my gear. ;)
Was checkin into a HD19a for a spotter. It's kindof more of a convenience, I THINK, and still not sure how much weight to put on that option. Kinda seems key from casual observation, tho'. The spotter/dedicated TWS sounds interesting. Still rollin that around the noodle.

rob072770- Whuzzup there, Winston-Salem? (X-old lady's from there) Yup, there be some fat bears roamin around down this way. Enough so ya trip over one out in the road once inna blue moon or so. I think they got a 500+ over to the other hunt club I was in near Shallotte this year. The pigs here are very highly nomadic. With that and property ownership so fragmented it makes for a lot of difficulty and game cameras. Ya know? I'll try my hand at the hunt club down on the Pee Dee. Tubes and barrel's out!

Been hog hunting down near Walterboro SC they are thick with some big hogs shot a 200# a few years back. I have been talking with a farmer in Sampson county to get him to,let me kill his problem . Still working on the details.

 

[JPK]

Wiggy, you know you can set the refresh rate on the MK II to 30htz? Works fine at 30htz and extends battery life by something like 50%.

Frank, Wiggy is a hunter now! He is learning the ropes coyote hunting, and finding opportunities.

JPK

 

[Taco]

Hey sneaky I gotta tell ya you're a bit too abrasive, cock sure, and arrogant for me to give you any advice. Good luck.

 

[Schneeky]

Saw that external power pack option on Tyler's site. Just got thru checkin into it a bit. The Anker is rechargeable, but the 18650's in it don't seem to be replaceable. That said, a replacement Anker unit off Amazon was only $28. So no biggie. Just a l'il more bulk and crap hangin off the rifle.
I still can't wrap my head around why the mfg's don't allow for longer lasting power without going external. 'Specially with all the power options available today. It's kinda like puttin a 5 gallon fuel tank on a Hemi truck. It works, but ya ain't goin too far w/o fillin up. Am I being ignorant and there's some good reason for that?
Concerning price, I'll buy from board sponsors/participants unless it "hurts". If they're reasonably close to the rest that's the way to go. I'll be curious to how it shakes out when it comes time to plunk down the coin. I'll be curious about those "side streets".
I'll eyeball that Pulsar 50mm. But dayum what a ugly piece'o'kit! Hehehe.
I posted on ARfcom NC hometown forum checking for local-ish thermal owners that might allow a look thru their unit. But so far no takers. d:^)

The mk2 IR-Hunter 20mm might be available for street price under $5k ... the 35mm for maybe under $6k if you find the right street.
In my experience Armasight's strength is customer service ... not so much over the phone but solid on always honoring the warranty. The Pulsar 50mm trumped the Zeus 75mm in my testing (including 4 other folks looking thru both).
With the UNV extended battery pack for the mk2 you can use rechargables.

 

[Schneeky]

Hey sneaky I gotta tell ya you're a bit too abrasive, cock sure, and arrogant for me to give you any advice. Good luck.

Ok. I'm thinkin that's prolly a "communicating in type" thing, tho'. Cause most everything I say comes with a wink-and-a-grin. My avatar pretty much sums up my general attitude. Oddball's my hero. Hehehe. Thanks, anyways.

FrankT- Will do, Mr Frank.

Rob- We're lookin to buy a place in Sampson or Pender county when this place sells. There's been a few reports of pigs, but pretty well dispersed. The hunt club ain't too far from ya. Just past the Uwharrie from yer AO. Shoot me an IM.

 

[ccreyeder]

I had three Armasights, two pulsars and one each IRD and ATN. And most simply put I'd say the IRD has the best "detail" (identification) ... and controls are easy to use one handed with gloves but that best "detail" comes at a premium price. I currently have the IR-Hunter mk2, 35mm, 640(60).
Best "bang for the buck" I'd say is Pulsar ... I currently have the XD50A, 2x, 50mm 384(50). The Pulsar has the second best "detail" I've seen and controls also easy to use one handed with gloves. Pulsar was under $3,400.

The Zeus 75mm, 3x, 640(30) came in at #3 in terms of detail
The Apex xd75a 75mm, 3x, 384(50) came in at #4.

My other two thermals are spotters, not rifle scopes though they have reticles and can be used in a pinch
Q-14, 1x, 19mm, 640(30)
Odin, 1x, 17mm, 320(30)

And I had for 15 months, but no longer have
Apollo, 1x, 42mm, 324(60)
It was between the Zeus and the xd75a on image, it was a clipon but could be used as a 1x scope and I used it that way or as a 1x spotter.

==
If I was buying today for your application, I'd go with the pulsar xd50a. NCS and TCT should both be able to get those ... probably others can also.

Hey Wig...

Do you have or have you used the pulsar Quantum HD19A monocular? If so, how does the image of that monocular compare to the XD50A scope?

I have the pulsar monocular as well as a IRD MK II 35mm. I would like to pick up an extra thermal scope for anyone that is hunting with me to use. The monocular is def good for scanning/spotting, but I wouldnt feel comfortable shooting with the image detail that it provides (or doesnt provide actually) Looking at the specs, the 19A and the XD50A have pretty much the same resolution, only differing in mag and FOV.

I might rent one from UNV and give it a try myself, just wondering if you (or anyone else that wants to chime in) have compared the image quality between the 19A monocular and the XD50A scope....

 

[Lancer]

Hey Wig...

Do you have or have you used the pulsar Quantum HD19A monocular? If so, how does the image of that monocular compare to the XD50A scope?

I have the pulsar monocular as well as a IRD MK II 35mm. I would like to pick up an extra thermal scope for anyone that is hunting with me to use. The monocular is def good for scanning/spotting, but I wouldnt feel comfortable shooting with the image detail that it provides (or doesnt provide actually) Looking at the specs, the 19A and the XD50A have pretty much the same resolution, only differing in mag and FOV.

I might rent one from UNV and give it a try myself, just wondering if you (or anyone else that wants to chime in) have compared the image quality between the 19A monocular and the XD50A scope....

The image from the HD19A and the image from the XD38A are hugely different. I don't have any videos up with the monocular but several up with the 38. I would think the XD50A would be much better.

 

[JPK]

I also have the HD 19A and a 35mm MK II, as well as a Patrol. The Patrol spends most of the time rifle mounted as a second scope.

Just a note on the 19A, I went too long before I realized how sensitive the image quality is to objective focus and also to the contrast setting. If you guys with 19A's haven't tried messing with the settings, I would suggest it.

JPK

 

[ccreyeder]

Lancer and JPK... thanks for the info! thanks for the info on the XD50A. Later when I get a chance, I think I will rent one from UNV and when I do, I will be sure to post my results/impressions.

 

[Schneeky]

Will any of the ~$2k spotters positively ID Hog-from-dog-from-deer at 350ish?

 

[rob072770]

Will any of the ~$2k spotters positively ID Hog-from-dog-from-deer at 350ish?

I bet you could pick up a used W-1000'that will tell what stuff is at 300 yds easy

 

[JPK]

Will any of the ~$2k spotters positively ID Hog-from-dog-from-deer at 350ish?

In the open, with maybe a little watching to determine behavior, the HD 19A should do it.

The HD 19A is at it's best as a spotter when paired with a better thermal scope, so you spot and determine what the target probably is, but get positive ID with the better, higher native magnification scope. Overall, the best spotter I have is my IR Defense 35mm MK II scope with it's 2.45x native magnification. It beats it's sibling, an IR Defense Patrol, with the same core and screen but 1.45x magnification, and the MK II is better only because of the native magnification. On the other hand, in tight spaces the 19A rules because of FOV.

And no matter how you cut it, 350yds is a LONG way at night. However, one of the advantages of hunting at night is that you can almost always move closer to the target or, in the case of predators, call them closer to you.

JPK

 

[Brian Shaffer]

Wiggy, you know you can set the refresh rate on the MK II to 30htz? Works fine at 30htz and extends battery life by something like 50%.

Frank, Wiggy is a hunter now! He is learning the ropes coyote hunting, and finding opportunities.

JPK

Running Energizer batteries, I would get approximately 5 hours and 30 minutes per set at 30 hz (averaged time). At 60 hz, 3 hours 45 minutes without the video out feature turned on. With video out turned on, 3 hours 35 minutes.

Temperatures of the tests ranges from the 50s to the 70s during the course of each evening.

 

[JPK]

Running Energizer batteries, I would get approximately 5 hours and 30 minutes per set at 30 hz (averaged time). At 60 hz, 3 hours 45 minutes without the video out feature turned on. With video out turned on, 3 hours 35 minutes.

Temperatures of the tests ranges from the 50s to the 70s during the course of each evening.

Well, my scientific wild ass guess wasn't too far off. Your tests indicate a 46.7% run time improvement at 30htz.

Brian, I am assuming the tests were with the MK II set up for two batteries, as it comes, and not for three as the optional extender allows. Right?

JPK

 

[Lancer]

Will any of the ~$2k spotters positively ID Hog-from-dog-from-deer at 350ish?

I concur with JPK the HD 19A will work at and beyond that range for identification. You'll get fooled at first and stalk up on some deer but I've seen that happen with more experienced hunters and with much more expensive spotters too. id say I'm 95% @ up to 500yds. But part of that is movement and action based. YMMV.

 

[theblakester]

Would I be wrong to guess that thermals on the "lower end" (@ or less than $2500 new in today's NV/thermal market, 336 resolution or lower, and a germanium lens of 25 mm or less) under average weather conditions (not a super cool crisp dry clear night, but also not a hot wet foggy humid night) would have a hard time identifying an immobile 40-175 lb 4 legged creature based on image alone (not watching how the creature moves/behaves)?? Fox vs coyote. Coyote vs small deer/hog. Adult deer vs hog etc?

Disclaimer: I'm guessing, not claiming here. Hoping more experienced users can elaborate.

 

[Schneeky]

And no matter how you cut it, 350yds is a LONG way at night. However, one of the advantages of hunting at night is that you can almost always move closer to the target or, in the case of predators, call them closer to you.JPK

Agreed. I came to that yardage by ranging a good bit of the cutovers and stand sites on the club. Stands are all 150ish and under. The cutovers seem to come in somewhere between 3-400 yards of "viewable" area for the most part. What ya can't see in the river bottom cutover pic is the saw-tooth brier brambles, the jumble of deadwood and the overall "soggy-ness". Makes traversing them "interesting" even in the daytime. Although there's usually an alternate route around that's not so bad, but much longer. So I guess ya could say I'm being lazy in tryin to figure out what might be lighting up a screen and whether to call or stalk.
I've gone back-n-forth a good bit on the whole good spotter/lesser scope vs. good scope/lesser spotter. There seems to be pros-n-cons both ways, as usual. Leaning t'wards good scope/lesser spotter in the form of a IRD Mk II or III 35mm/HD19a. Unless I'm missing somethin seems I'd hafta up my spotter budget a chunk to get "that much" improvement and the FLIR offerings seem slow in that price range. Tryin to keep the spotter under $2500.
Thanks much for y'all's input and toleration of my ramblings!