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djones
Guest
this is a candidate for post of the year. i wish i had thought of it. regardless of our online relationship, i think we could be great enemies in real life, that is... if OinK didn't whoop ur hiney first!!
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djones
Guest
i certainly intended to get a bolt and have the gun checked. i was frustrated that my email from yesterday went unanswered. when i called today only to find out the gun hadn't even been checked, it was easy to change my mind and request the gun be returned.
i already have the superbolt i purchased last week and was going to use it anyway. i think the other *** enhanced superbolt is only avail with their complete upper designed for it. the 6.8 is taking me some effort to like, but i'm trying...
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djones
Guest
OinK i agree with you 100%. that's certainly what i would have done and with all the hoopla about their customer service, i really was hopeful that's what they would do. but i understand the warranty agreement and i violated it. however, in my opinion, it's when companies go above and beyond their warranty that defines great customer service. perhaps we are in the minority. old school i guess.
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djones
Guest
i don't know very much about guns. i just like to shoot them. i've NEVER broken a bolt in the one or two (lol) ARs i've owned over the last 45 years. i think a broken bolt is serious enough to have everything checked, so i attempted to. i would think lwrc would want to also, just in case their product failed from a manufacturers defect. as someone else mentioned here, i doubt this is the first broken bolt they've seen, and i suspect they know exactly why.
when i saw the responses to this post, i did my own research and saw how this isn't unheard of in this caliber. i'm assuming there was a need for superbolts or there wouldn't be any. armed with new information, i agree i was premature in sending in my gun.
fortunately, i was able to come up with a spare firearm or two to get me by. i don't remember how soon i was hunting again, but i bet i went the next day if i wanted to. i agree completely though, if you like something, have a spare. unfortunately, women don't see it that way.
OneK
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From the 6.8 Forum posted by StingRay as linked above:
"Spoke to Rodney Nelson at LWRC today and he said send him the bolt and he will send me a new one. He also said if I wanted to send him the rifle so he could test it that he would send me a return tag so it wouldn't cost me anything"
I expected this result because StingRay shot reloads too.
I realize what the warranty agreement said but it sure would have made a better impression if they had repaired it for free. I don't think a bolt would have broke anyone but the optics and word of mouth would have gone a long way to selling more rifles.
"Spoke to Rodney Nelson at LWRC today and he said send him the bolt and he will send me a new one. He also said if I wanted to send him the rifle so he could test it that he would send me a return tag so it wouldn't cost me anything"
I expected this result because StingRay shot reloads too.
I realize what the warranty agreement said but it sure would have made a better impression if they had repaired it for free. I don't think a bolt would have broke anyone but the optics and word of mouth would have gone a long way to selling more rifles.
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djones
Guest
i can say with as much certainty as possible, without a chamber pressure tester, that my loads are more than safe. i also don't expect anyone else to believe that, and for good reason.
at my age, one thing i have less of than money is time. i feel more and more compelled to make the right decisions and treat others honestly and fairly... because i want to, not because i want or expect it in return. i wouldn't suggest this is for everyone, haha. its just been working well for me. i'm not angry about the outcome. that would be pointless because it wouldn't accomplish anything except make me angry. frustrated and disappointed... yes. but that's life.
TEXASLAWMAN
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We can only assume it was not below factory performance!
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djones
Guest
why must we assume that? because anything else means the bolt failed?
RattlesnakeDan
San Antonio Texas
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You love me...just go ahead and say it.
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djones
Guest
i love you just enuf to pray for you... that you receive a ray of clarity
Jake
Bandera, Texas
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I like how you handled that DJ, if you wish I will assemble an upper for you with *** barrel and nib/exo coated superbolt/carrier. Mine has never failed me and all I do for maintenence is clean bolt and carrier and re-lube every 400 rounds or so. My chamber and ammo look just like yours, never a single jam. Lemme know.
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djones
Guest
i really do like the lwrc... except for the BOLT FAILURE. it should be here friday and i'm sure it will run fine with the superbolt. thanks very much for the generous offer though. but don't expect any mercy. i'm still going to terrorize you
I would be willing to bet that the bolt failure dealy is not a common deal. This is the second one I have heard of and not even the same caliber. You have to look all the folks that are trying to build their own ARs also and have no clue what they are doing. ARs are not that complicated but if not put together correctly and fired with hotter than normal loads things can go wrong, sometimes they can be temperamental. Bolts breaking are few and far between if you take into account the rounds fired and numbers of Ars out there. Remember &*!$ happens!! BANG BANG!!
Case in point from you stating you have never broke a bolt in 45 years??
Case in point from you stating you have never broke a bolt in 45 years??
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djones
Guest
maybe it’s time to lay all the cards on the table. I apologize in advance if this takes longer to read than a tlm vid does to watch, lol
I’ve been reloading as long as I’ve been shooting, not that it matters. since I fell in with mr world champion, and have befriended and hunted with other members of the benchrest club and their rifle builders, I’ve learned they are a snobby bunch when it comes to handloads and rifles. they wouldn’t even let me sit at the same lunch table until I replaced all my dies with the neck bushing types and micrometer bullet seaters. my custom rifle had to have a seater die custom made from the reamer they used to chamber the barrel. all this seemed a little overkill to me, but I’m not opposed to trying new things, even if they’re not broken, lol.
my loads are identical to lawman’s except I use LESS AA2200 than he does. again that doesn’t mean anything since chambers are different. 2,000 of the loads were new brass. powder for every load was weighed with a calibrated electronic scale and verified. until I sent the gun off, I hadn’t had a different powder on the table in months. now I’m not saying it isn’t possible that someone broke into my house and poured a spoonful of bullseye in one of my cases, but no one is going to convince me it happened.
none of this matters because the use of reloads gives the manufacturer a get out of jail free card. however, a call from lawman to the mgr resulted in the mgr emailing me and stating he spoke with lawman (whom I appreciate going to bat for me) and he cc’ed a copy of the email to the two ‘gunsmiths?’, with a link to this thread. now maybe that was just marketing fluff and no one ever looked at this thread, I don’t know. but if they did, they would have known I was using handloads. even if they didn’t, they definitely saw my note with the gun indicating that.
this is where I feel let down. ‘good’ customer support would dictate they notify me right away and inform me they would be happy to inspect/repair my gun, but it would not be covered under warranty, then ask me how to proceed. ‘good’ customer support would have been to return my email requesting a progress report, from which I still haven’t seen a reply, but it’s moot now since the gun is on its way back.
‘great’ customer service, which is what I believed they offered, would have been to perform the inspection and bolt replacement at no charge. the bolt is $150 retail, what’s it cost them? $40… $50 bucks? granted I said I didn’t expect it to be fixed for free, but under the circumstances, ie the praise lwrc has received here and lawman’s support, I had high hopes that I was about to receive ‘great’ service.
all one need do is search 6.8 bolt failure. there is much on this topic, everything from… it doesn’t exist to… it’s a common and well known problem. I’m suspicious about what I read on the internet, but if you look at the sources and are halfway decent at determining credibility, one can glean just enough information from which to render a conclusion; a more reliable one than simply saying… ‘it’s the handload’ without inspecting anything.
I’ve seen ARs that have been blown apart from hot loads... their magazines blown out, mag well flared, bolt stuck etc. as in a civil case, where a verdict must be based on evidence that suggests an outcome was ‘more likely than not’ rather than ‘beyond a reasonable doubt’, I conclude the lugs had been weakening over time and finally broke. I’ll close with the old saying… ‘don’t piss down my back and tell me it’s raining’
I’ve been reloading as long as I’ve been shooting, not that it matters. since I fell in with mr world champion, and have befriended and hunted with other members of the benchrest club and their rifle builders, I’ve learned they are a snobby bunch when it comes to handloads and rifles. they wouldn’t even let me sit at the same lunch table until I replaced all my dies with the neck bushing types and micrometer bullet seaters. my custom rifle had to have a seater die custom made from the reamer they used to chamber the barrel. all this seemed a little overkill to me, but I’m not opposed to trying new things, even if they’re not broken, lol.
my loads are identical to lawman’s except I use LESS AA2200 than he does. again that doesn’t mean anything since chambers are different. 2,000 of the loads were new brass. powder for every load was weighed with a calibrated electronic scale and verified. until I sent the gun off, I hadn’t had a different powder on the table in months. now I’m not saying it isn’t possible that someone broke into my house and poured a spoonful of bullseye in one of my cases, but no one is going to convince me it happened.
none of this matters because the use of reloads gives the manufacturer a get out of jail free card. however, a call from lawman to the mgr resulted in the mgr emailing me and stating he spoke with lawman (whom I appreciate going to bat for me) and he cc’ed a copy of the email to the two ‘gunsmiths?’, with a link to this thread. now maybe that was just marketing fluff and no one ever looked at this thread, I don’t know. but if they did, they would have known I was using handloads. even if they didn’t, they definitely saw my note with the gun indicating that.
this is where I feel let down. ‘good’ customer support would dictate they notify me right away and inform me they would be happy to inspect/repair my gun, but it would not be covered under warranty, then ask me how to proceed. ‘good’ customer support would have been to return my email requesting a progress report, from which I still haven’t seen a reply, but it’s moot now since the gun is on its way back.
‘great’ customer service, which is what I believed they offered, would have been to perform the inspection and bolt replacement at no charge. the bolt is $150 retail, what’s it cost them? $40… $50 bucks? granted I said I didn’t expect it to be fixed for free, but under the circumstances, ie the praise lwrc has received here and lawman’s support, I had high hopes that I was about to receive ‘great’ service.
all one need do is search 6.8 bolt failure. there is much on this topic, everything from… it doesn’t exist to… it’s a common and well known problem. I’m suspicious about what I read on the internet, but if you look at the sources and are halfway decent at determining credibility, one can glean just enough information from which to render a conclusion; a more reliable one than simply saying… ‘it’s the handload’ without inspecting anything.
I’ve seen ARs that have been blown apart from hot loads... their magazines blown out, mag well flared, bolt stuck etc. as in a civil case, where a verdict must be based on evidence that suggests an outcome was ‘more likely than not’ rather than ‘beyond a reasonable doubt’, I conclude the lugs had been weakening over time and finally broke. I’ll close with the old saying… ‘don’t piss down my back and tell me it’s raining’
When did you get a sense or moral awareness? I'm impressed DJ!
I conclude the lugs had been weakening over time and finally broke.
So what is the problem or what was the problem, could have said that from the start!! It happens ONCE in awhile, and you should have called them from the beginning yourself from what I have been reading? It did rain this AM just a dribble though!! BANG BANG!!
So what is the problem or what was the problem, could have said that from the start!! It happens ONCE in awhile, and you should have called them from the beginning yourself from what I have been reading? It did rain this AM just a dribble though!! BANG BANG!!
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djones
Guest
scram, I'm like a mother goose book... not hard to read if you're paying attention
curly, dang you, you’re one of about two people I like here, and I’m beginning to wonder about you. I’m old and forgetful, so lets recap and I’ll throw in some things I may have left out along the way.
a week before the disabling jam I had another jam. I don’t recall the specifics, but I think I cleared it and kept shooting. I never mentioned it because I sorta have a reputation as a jammer and I don’t need any more help in that area. the gun was clean and it wasn’t very far into the hunt, that is I hadn’t gone through 3 or 4 magazines or anything. I recall being very surprised about it.
the jam that locked me up was the following week. I don’t know how many rounds were fired between jams, maybe several dozen but at least 8 or 10, as that was how many rounds I had fired on the herd when it stuck. the shooting started facing down the road and finished facing perpendicular to the road. I picked up three pieces of brass that were next to the road and didn’t even bother to look for the ones in the tall grass next to the fence. it’s very likely one of the pieces I picked up was the last round ejected. none showed signs of pressure. in fact, when working up this load, i showed my empties to the local 'expert' and was laughed at me... translated... safe loads.
as mentioned this at the beginning of this thread, the gun was locked up so I went home and knocked the round out with a rod. it was a live round and there was a lug just past the barrel extension where the lugs normally lock. I checked the bolt and it was missing two lugs. I could have lost both on the last round but I think I broke one the prior week and never realized it.
now, this was on the weekend. I posted here and glad I did. lawman stepped up and went the extra mile to help, or at least try to. I did contact lwrc right away… on monday during business hours. AFTER I contacted them first, the mgr emailed me back and mentioned tlm's call and he was expecting to hear from me.
now, if you don’t have any other advice besides BANG BANG, go trap some beavers and post pics!!
curly, dang you, you’re one of about two people I like here, and I’m beginning to wonder about you. I’m old and forgetful, so lets recap and I’ll throw in some things I may have left out along the way.
a week before the disabling jam I had another jam. I don’t recall the specifics, but I think I cleared it and kept shooting. I never mentioned it because I sorta have a reputation as a jammer and I don’t need any more help in that area. the gun was clean and it wasn’t very far into the hunt, that is I hadn’t gone through 3 or 4 magazines or anything. I recall being very surprised about it.
the jam that locked me up was the following week. I don’t know how many rounds were fired between jams, maybe several dozen but at least 8 or 10, as that was how many rounds I had fired on the herd when it stuck. the shooting started facing down the road and finished facing perpendicular to the road. I picked up three pieces of brass that were next to the road and didn’t even bother to look for the ones in the tall grass next to the fence. it’s very likely one of the pieces I picked up was the last round ejected. none showed signs of pressure. in fact, when working up this load, i showed my empties to the local 'expert' and was laughed at me... translated... safe loads.
as mentioned this at the beginning of this thread, the gun was locked up so I went home and knocked the round out with a rod. it was a live round and there was a lug just past the barrel extension where the lugs normally lock. I checked the bolt and it was missing two lugs. I could have lost both on the last round but I think I broke one the prior week and never realized it.
now, this was on the weekend. I posted here and glad I did. lawman stepped up and went the extra mile to help, or at least try to. I did contact lwrc right away… on monday during business hours. AFTER I contacted them first, the mgr emailed me back and mentioned tlm's call and he was expecting to hear from me.
now, if you don’t have any other advice besides BANG BANG, go trap some beavers and post pics!!
Aw hell!! That explains everything. I would just chuck the whole mess in the scrap yard and buy EVERYTHING NEW in the 450 SOCOM and be done with it. BANG BANG!!! Or,, just give it up for the most part and look at pictures like I do!!
Or,, just give it up for the most part and look at pictures like I do!!
TEXASLAWMAN
Lone Star Boars Owner
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We must assume that because we know you.
I shoot nothing but max loads why waste my time with weak $#!*.
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djones
Guest
curly, i mentioned somewhere it wouldn't bother me at all to chunk the lwrc in the bar ditch and get another one since i feel i already got my money's worth out of it... about a dollar a shot.
ldawg, i have no doubt you would have received a new bolt with an apology from mr lwrc himself, hot loads or not. which is why i'm confused why your good word with the mgr seems to have fallen on deaf ears. i know that you know me, therefore you should also know that it sux to be me. i think you must have been a bully in high school.
i liked the lwrc bolt too. i even put in a plug for it somewhere in this forum... about having two springs under the ejector. several modifications in the bcg to address and accommodate piston guns. seemed like everything was thought out before they began. but it is what it is.
i don't have much option now but to try the superbolt. i made a mistake once before. i don't remember what it was, but i could possibly make one again. y'all will know soon enough how long the superbolt lasts. i can't wait to catch hell for that. will probably earn me a banner, theme and signature.
ldawg, i have no doubt you would have received a new bolt with an apology from mr lwrc himself, hot loads or not. which is why i'm confused why your good word with the mgr seems to have fallen on deaf ears. i know that you know me, therefore you should also know that it sux to be me. i think you must have been a bully in high school.
i liked the lwrc bolt too. i even put in a plug for it somewhere in this forum... about having two springs under the ejector. several modifications in the bcg to address and accommodate piston guns. seemed like everything was thought out before they began. but it is what it is.
i don't have much option now but to try the superbolt. i made a mistake once before. i don't remember what it was, but i could possibly make one again. y'all will know soon enough how long the superbolt lasts. i can't wait to catch hell for that. will probably earn me a banner, theme and signature.
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