Simple Question but I can't figure out the answer

Hogdaddy

St. Petersburg, Florida
Using: RCBS Reloader Special-5 press
Hornady Custom Grade Resizing Die 6.8
Hornady Headspace Comparator with Frankford Arsenal Digital Calipers (also tried a mechanical caliper)
RCBS case lube

Set and locked die for 1.351"
Most come out on the money, 25% come out 1.354 +/-

I know there's probably a simple answer but dang if I can figure it out...
 

Ratdog68

LSB Official Story Teller
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Disregard bullet tip to case head measurement. Ogive to case head measurement is what you're wanting consistent.

Loading for a bolt action? Most AR mags won't load that long.
 

Hogdaddy

St. Petersburg, Florida
Thanks for your help. Unless I'm wrong, the Hornady Headspace Comparator does measure from the ogive to the case head. Loading for a 6.8 AR.
 

Hogdaddy

St. Petersburg, Florida
Got it, not using enough case lube...
 

Afalex1

LSB Active Member
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Thanks for your help. Unless I'm wrong, the Hornady Headspace Comparator does measure from the ogive to the case head. Loading for a 6.8 AR.
Yes, the hornady comparator measures on the ogive. See if the bullets you are loading are consistently the same length. If the bullets are slightly longer you may get some difference. Also, check that the primers on the long rounds are fully seated. Look for burs on the case head edge from an extractor pulling on it. Godly this helps.
 

Wildfowler

Mis'sippi
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Neck tension not perfectly consistent from case to case would be my guess? It may show up on paper too?

Do you notice any variation in bullet seating pressure from case to case?
 

Hogdaddy

St. Petersburg, Florida
Case length varies from case to case. Those between 1.680 and 1.688 I accept for reloading. Those above the range I set aside for trimming. Those below I set aside because I don't know how to make them longer...

Yes on variance in pressure when bullet seating.

"Neck tension not perfectly consistent from case to case would be my guess? It may show up on paper too?" Don't really know how to check this or correct problem. Since increasing amount of case lube used seems to have corrected this problem I kinda figured the lube amount was my issue. Also try to ream case mouth a little to make an easier entry for the bullet when seating. Re-sized 30 cases last night to 1.351 (came out +/- .001) then tumbled. Gonna finish reloading today.

Burs on case head edge - will check. I usually use the de-burring tool after sizing, guess I'll start doing it before and after.
 

ZenArchery

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I'm usually +/- oo3 in case length and -002 in OAL. I'm a little OCD. But just wanna be sure when it's me and not my load.

My hunting loads I have a lot more wiggle but I'm usually shooting under 100 yards.
 

Hogdaddy

St. Petersburg, Florida
Yea, me too, last hog I shot was at the base of my ladder stand.
Just Headspace Comparator measured 37 fire formed Hornady AR brass (may have been reloaded once) and it ranged as followed:
.353 - 3
.354 - 2
.356 - 5
.357 - 10
.358 - 9
.359 - 7
.360 - 1

Comments please and where would you set your resizing die to butt shoulder back?
 

Wildfowler

Mis'sippi
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What do you mean case lube? Lube for resizing brass, or are you lubing inside of neck with graphite for bullet seating?



Some folks anneal their brass to help uniform neck tension? I don't. Consequently, those will produce flyers. A ten shot group might go from one inch to two inches. So it's not that bad if an issue for me.



Also, if case neck thickness varies by a thousand or two ( which it could through no fault of your own ) you can measure the outside neck on a loaded round and measure a difference and sort those separately. You really need a ball or tube style micrometer to accurately measure neck thickness on an empty case.



I suspect since you feel varying pressure when seating its either and annealing or neck thickness showing up.



I also try to always try to swab the inside of the neck with a dry patch to remove any excess media residue before loading. That seems to help me uniform my bullet seating pressure.



How do they shoot otherwise?
 

DaveABQ

Albuquerque, NM
wildflower got it right, neck tension is most likely the difference
 

Hogdaddy

St. Petersburg, Florida
Neck thickness seems logical. So my 37 fire formed cases could have differing measurements on Hornady Headspace Comparator due to neck thickness variances on these Hornady cases?

Sorry, yes, case lube for resizing brass. I also use q-tip to put some inside neck when resizing. Do you use graphite inside of neck for bullet seating?
 

Hogdaddy

St. Petersburg, Florida
They shoot fine. Just looked at all my range targets from shooting 6.8 reloads from 25 yards to 100 yards which is 99% of distances I shoot hogs and most hits are within 3" which is totally acceptable to me. I'm beginning to think my quest for a 100% range of .003 or less ogive measurement to base is "Much Ado About Nothing" as Shakespeare said.
You guys gave me a lot of information to think about and I really appreciate your input.
 

FrankT

Destin FL
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The 6.8 should be shooting at least MOA at those distances.
 

Hogdaddy

St. Petersburg, Florida
I know Frank but I've spent 3 dang days trying to figure this out and since the only knowledge base I have is this forum and the 6.8 forum I'll just go back to what got me on paper and move on...
 

FrankT

Destin FL
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Is that the way it shoots w factory ammo? Sorry had not been following this thread and do not reload myself
 

Hogdaddy

St. Petersburg, Florida
Just checked all my range targets since 2013 and I was wrong about 3" groups, both factory and reloads were more like 1" not much difference between the two.
My bro is visiting from murderland aka Maryland. He's not a reloader but after describing the problem he said since I always load at the min and my measuring equipment ain't the most expensive by a longshot it could be that the difference in pressures caused by variance in grains could be causing the fire formed brass to have varying Headspace Comparator readings. Seems logical to me...
 

FrankT

Destin FL
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There you go 1" is acceptable
 

Wildfowler

Mis'sippi
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Neck thickness seems logical. So my 37 fire formed cases could have differing measurements on Hornady Headspace Comparator due to neck thickness variances on these Hornady cases?

Sorry, yes, case lube for resizing brass. I also use q-tip to put some inside neck when resizing. Do you use graphite inside of neck for bullet seating?
I media tumble again after resizing to remove all lube and try to remember to swab necks with clean patch to remove any media residue stuck in there. I do this because I may not tumble for the same time every usage and want to remove any excess carbon from the neck too. I personally try and keep my necks as uniform as possible. Both in cleanliness and in measurement. I personally believe variation in neck tension is the biggest culprit for unexplained flyers when shooting for groups on paper. Regardless of the cause of the variation.

Annealing is next on my to-do list but I'm just not going to try to do it manually by hand. Worried about not being able anneal perfectly the same if I try and count in my head while torching the brass. Also, If I ever get into bolt action long range shooting I plan on buying an arbor press that uses a bullet seating die with a dial indicator to measure seating force.

I've never used any lube to seat bullets, I just know that some do.

I don't have a 6.8, but don't expect any variation in case neck thickness to show up in headspace variation. It's normal to see a thousandth or so variation when checking fired cases. Particularly if the brass is new or only has a firing or two on it. Some cases need to be fired and re-sized a couple of times before they reach their full expansion due to "spring back". I wouldn't sweat this and just set size die to accommodate longest measurement from few random case measured.

I have found that ogive to base measurement never is perfect for me. In addition to everything we've talked about here, your bullets themselves can even be the culprit even if you have perfect cases to start with. Take that same comparitor and measure some of the bullets by themselves and see if you have any variation. I measured a box of Hornady 120 SST's and found they varied by a couple thou. Most were dead on and I love that bullet in another cartridge.

I try and fine tune my load in .005" OAL increments after finding the powder charge instead of just loading to magazine length. Obviously, the only direction away from magazine length you can go is shorter OAL.

For load development if I notice handle pressure variation or if I have a round with a OAL that's a good bit off from the rest I set those aside so I don't risk a preventable flyer from showing up on paper.

For hunting, I shoot them all as they come off the press regardless of OAL variation whatever the cause because it really won't matter much at 100 yard hunting distances.
 
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