Houston Chronicle article on Feral hogs

[EGarza04]

This article gives some pretty interesting stats as far as population and overall take estimates. It also has a paragraph or two on TPWD's research efforts to find a hog specific feeder to deliver sodium nitrite. I really like the last quote from Bodenchuk stating we need to take at least %70 of a population of feral pigs annually to significantly impact the population.

http://www.chron.com/sports/outdoors/article/Texas-losing-war-on-feral-hogs-4685490.php

 

[FrankT]

I would really hate to see the poison used as it would destroy hunting opportunities that I currently enjoy. I think a birth control in feed that only affects hogs would be considered also

 

[TEXASLAWMAN]

I would really hate to see the poison used as it would destroy hunting opportunities that I currently enjoy. I think a birth control in feed that only affects hogs would be considered also

Agreed. I never would have though I'd hear those words from my mouth. My intent was to eradicate the hogs. After almost totally running them off from most ranches I hunt know I have hog hunting withdrawals.

 

[pruhdlr]

If the hog population climbs so darned high as to have to use poisons to control them...the hogs are not the REAL problem.....it is the humans. IMO...the know it all college boys and the tree/bunny huggers. As stated before,Fla is quickly going the way of Texas.

Heck...in some parts of the US the white tailed deer are the same problem as hogs are in Texas. I am starting to get involved in deer predation permitting. There is one farmer that gets 40 permitts for just under 200 acres. He grows soy beans and peanuts. --- pruhdlr

 

[Itsazonik]

Floridas hog problem is just as bad and the problem is the people that own land. They are so busy trying to make money off hog hunts they aren't doing anything about the problem. My friend was shooting 4 or 5 a day on slow days. These "guides" are taking 4 or 5 a week because nobody wants to pay $400 for a 15 minute canned hunt.

A friend of mine came down from Wisconsin just to hog hunt. Paid $150 deposit and was told he had to shoot the first hog they saw. If it was a trophy it would cost extra. 20 minutes into the hunt a hog came darting out of the swamp on a dead run and my friend shot it. Ended up being 205 pounds. Had to pay a trophy fee of $300 extra. My friend said it ran out like it had just been let out of a cage.

People are the biggest part of the problem. As long as people are trying to capitalize on it all the problem will never be solved

 

[Wassman]

Floridas hog problem is just as bad and the problem is the people that own land. They are so busy trying to make money off hog hunts they aren't doing anything about the problem. My friend was shooting 4 or 5 a day on slow days. These "guides" are taking 4 or 5 a week because nobody wants to pay $400 for a 15 minute canned hunt.

A friend of mine came down from Wisconsin just to hog hunt. Paid $150 deposit and was told he had to shoot the first hog they saw. If it was a trophy it would cost extra. 20 minutes into the hunt a hog came darting out of the swamp on a dead run and my friend shot it. Ended up being 205 pounds. Had to pay a trophy fee of $300 extra. My friend said it ran out like it had just been let out of a cage.

People are the biggest part of the problem. As long as people are trying to capitalize on it all the problem will never be solved

That is just highway robbery, $450 for one pig.

 

[Itsazonik]

I have seen worse. There's a guy down south that charges $1000, no refund, to hunt 700# Russian boars. Doesn't guarantee anything. I saw the pictures and ill have to try to find it again but the pictures are of 250 to 300 pounders max

 

[Itsazonik]

Wanna play guess the weight? This is razor ranch. $500 trophy fee for one like this. This one is on their site

 

[Itsazonik]

Ok I found it. Ross hammock ranch has Russian boars from $895 to $1195

http://www.rosshammockranch.com/

 

[EGarza04]

Well guys, I guess this is where my opinion may differ from many of yours, if we have to agree to disagree that is ok with me.

I feel that the tools we currently have to eradicate a population of feral swine in a large area are seriously lacking. Yes the various ways to shoot and trap them can be great for hunting opportunity but in my mind that is not enough to make up for all the various types of direct and indirect destruction they do. Currently I have yet to see any population of feral swine eradicated from large tracts of land by only hunting/trapping.

The only advantage to having feral swine I can think of is the hunting opportunity. All other advantages I could think of stem from the hunting opportunity so there is actually only one advantage.

There are however various types of direct and indirect disadvantages. First we have to remember that these are feral exotics that do not belong in the US in free-ranging populations. They annually produce billions of dollars worth of damage to various crops in Texas alone. Feral swine have been seen to contaminate streams and creeks with E. coli bacteria, they compete with native wildlife, and can carry a large number of diseases without showing symptoms (some of which are transmissable to humans), just to name a few.

As some of you have already stated, and I agree with you, people are the problem. Some people release them so that they can have something to hunt, others over charge for the opportunity to hunt them or want them gone but refuse to allow them to be killed on their land. Some people (and states), consider them wildlife instead of free-ranging livestock which leads to over-regulation of the species. Others think they should be left alone and not hunted or killed at all.

As I have already stated, I do think they should be eradicated within most of their current range. The only exception I see to that is on private land. I do feel that if you want them on your land then you have every right to have them, so long as they are not leaving your property and causing destruction on other people's property (yes fencing can contain them so long as the fences are properly maintained). Basically they should be treated as what they are, livestock. If you want to kill them by hunting on private property that is up to you. Where I feel most of the eradication should take place is on public property, state, local, or federally owned. We have to remember that these are properties that are set aside for the public to hunt game animals and to enjoy nature. Maintaining a population of feral swine on these properties is contrary to those goals. The ability to use a chemical that works quickly and does not affect non target animals would greatly help achieve the goals of removing feral swine from large tracts of land in which they are not wanted or in areas where they are producing damage to public safety or the ability of someone to make a living.

Again guys, this is just my personal opinion and I do welcome everyone else's opinion. Just in case anyone is wondering, yes I have successfully eradicated feral swine from one of my family's places and have been able to maintain that ranch as feral swine free for the past 5 years. If I have the chance I will do the same on other properties that my family owns. I do like shooting and hunting feral swine, but I enjoy it even more when I can successfully help all the native wildlife populations by eradicating the feral swine from an area.

 

[TEXASLAWMAN]

Well guys, I guess this is where my opinion may differ from many of yours, if we have to agree to disagree that is ok with me.

Currently I have yet to see any population of feral swine eradicated from large tracts of land by only hunting/trapping.

Maybe not eradicated but I pretty much single handed ran them off a 10,000 ranch in E Texas. You would be lucky to see any there last year no rooting no damage. After wiping them out the owners decided to try out guided hunts for pay. So now they are trying to rebuild the population we wiped out. It was somewhere close to 2,000 hogs shot, and trapped in less than a year.

 

[FrankT]

a double edged sword for sure...I would miss hunting 365 days a year and would never get on a lease without hogs.

 

[TEXASLAWMAN]

I know one thing I'd like to kill the red one in the pic.

 

[EGarza04]

Maybe not eradicated but I pretty much single handed ran them off a 10,000 ranch in E Texas. You would be lucky to see any there last year no rooting no damage. After wiping them out the owners decided to try out guided hunts for pay. So now they are trying to rebuild the population we wiped out. It was somewhere close to 2,000 hogs shot, and trapped in less than a year.

That is pretty awesome, 2000 hogs in a year is a big task. Did the ranch have net wire fence or lose most of it's water sources during your efforts? The idea of the guy allowing the population to build back up goes back to people being the problem.

a double edged sword for sure...I would miss hunting 365 days a year and would never get on a lease without hogs.

I agree it is a double edged sword, but for me, one edge is still a little sharper than the other. For me it takes too much time, effort, and cash to fix everything they do to my family's properties.

 

[Brian Shaffer]

In general, humans have been poor stewards of the land. I think that if there is a way for the poisoning to get out of hand, it will. I don't like hogs, but unless the poisoning is a tightly controlled practice, I am confident there will be some serious negative results, maybe disastrous, that comes as a result. I would be willing to predict that if instituted, that the program will eventually fail due to some unforeseen significant negative effect...even if tightly controlled. Poisoning is a dangerous method of population control and has a long history of significant screw-ups here in America.

With that said, I really wish the folks at A&M (and I am an Aggie - Whoop!) and TPWD would get their acts together on this notion of the hog population. We were thought to have had close to 2 million in Texas in 1997. http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=0pZaAAAAIBAJ&sjid=IksDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6915,5481655&dq=texas hog population 2 million&hl=en In 2005, IIRC correctly, it was determined that we had 2 million hogs and again that number shows up in 2007 with the hogs doing $52 million in damages. http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-09-28-4083606463_x.htm The good folks at A&M estimate 18-21% annual growth after all the current insults to the population such as hunting, vehicle collisions, disease, etc. Yet today, we at just 2.6 million hogs and $50 million in damages as noted in the OP's example.

Think about it. If we were at 2.0 million in 2007 and we had the lower end of 18% growth
2008 2.36 million
2009 2.78 million
2010 3.29 million
2011 3.88 million
2012 4.57 million
2013 5.4 million hogs in Texas today. That would be the low estimate, but nobody is saying we have that many. Why?

So there are folks who are involved with studying the Texas hog population who either can't count or can't estimate appropriately because the numbers they keep giving us don't add up when you look back at what they have provided us in the past...and these are some of the experts who want to implement the proper measures to control the population. How do they know what is proper or even reasonable if they don't even really know how many they are dealing with in the first place?

I pulled up the MSDS on sodium nitrite. http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9927272

I think the claimed safety precautions will come down to the delivery system. They are going to have to keep other animals from getting at the bait. If they can't make it absolutely hog-specific, there will be die-offs of other animals. I have a feeling that there will be raccoon, squirrel, and other animals that are impacted.

Here is a related article from 2012
http://www.countryworldnews.com/news/headlines/1029-new-tool-for-hog-control-in-development.html

Here is Hog-Gone's information sheet on the product. They claim it is safe...
http://www.feral.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/HOGGONE_faq.pdf

Livestock and native species are not usually attracted to HOG‑GONE® baits.However, individual animals may sample a bait, so it is recommended that non‑target animals be excluded frombaiting points by fencing or use of a HogHopper™

Not usually attracted? Sorry, that doesn't sound very convincing.

 

[FrankT]

E...I understand, only 1 edge for you. Our lease is on St Joe timber land, no farmland for them to destroy so a bit different. I am afraid if it was my land and they were destroying it then I would exterminate with extreme prejudice!

 

[TEXASLAWMAN]

That is pretty awesome, 2000 hogs in a year is a big task. Did the ranch have net wire fence or lose most of it's water sources during your efforts? The idea of the guy allowing the population to build back up goes back to people being the problem.

No It has standard barbed wire fences several water sources that never dried up creeks, ponds, and icluding the sabine river. I hunt a couple of other places that they never hardly show up on anymore either no rutting in over a year. Not killing them all but they know where they will die I think. Usually take out the lead sow in the sounder then the rest just get confused and become targets. We had a very good success rate using this technique. Don't think we wiped them out but I think they found greener pastures.

This has worked on 4 ranches I hunt now. The largest was 10,000 acres the others are 2000, 1000, and 1000 acres. Hogs are rarely in game cameras anymore and when they do show up its usually a lone boar.

But like anything else if the pressure is let up they will return I'm sure of that.

 

[EGarza04]

With that said, I really wish the folks at A&M (and I am an Aggie - Whoop!) and TPWD would get their acts together on this notion of the hog population. We were thought to have had close to 2 million in Texas in 1997. http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=0pZaAAAAIBAJ&sjid=IksDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6915,5481655&dq=texas hog population 2 million&hl=en In 2005, IIRC correctly, it was determined that we had 2 million hogs and again that number shows up in 2007 with the hogs doing $52 million in damages.

I think the claimed safety precautions will come down to the delivery system. They are going to have to keep other animals from getting at the bait. If they can't make it absolutely hog-specific, there will be die-offs of other animals. I have a feeling that there will be raccoon, squirrel, and other animals that are impacted.

As for the population estimates, I have no idea what survey and sampling techniques A&M is using or what their latest estimates are. TPWD is not actually conducting the population surveys but they do provide funding to A&M to do them. I do know that regardless of the population range they are given, the media always uses the largest number possible in their articles.

As far as the delivery system, that is why use of that chemical for this purpose is still banned in the US. The delivery system is also one of 2 things TPWD is currently researching. TPWD has been told no delivery system will be certified unless they can show that it is hog specific and no other animal can access the poison. I really do not know what, if anthing, the USDA/FDA will accept as "take" of non target animals from this type of system. So far as I know, there has not been any talk of a "program" available for anyone to join or any assistance for anyone that would want to use the poison if it is ever labeled for this use. From what I have heard, this research is only to attempt at finding a hog specific delivery system in the hopes that sodium nitrite will eventually be labeled as a poison for use on feral swine.

E...I understand, only 1 edge for you. Our lease is on St Joe timber land, no farmland for them to destroy so a bit different. I am afraid if it was my land and they were destroying it then I would exterminate with extreme prejudice!

I see your side of it too Frank. I do love to hunt/shoot them, but I would rather have to do it on someone else's land.

No It has standard barbed wire fences several water sources that never dried up creeks, ponds, and icluding the sabine river. I hunt a couple of other places that they never hardly show up on anymore either no rutting in over a year. Not killing them all but they know where they will die I think. Usually take out the lead sow in the sounder then the rest just get confused and become targets. We had a very good success rate using this technique. Don't think we wiped them out but I think they found greener pastures.

You are the first one I have ever heard of to be able to do that on that large of a property. All I have to say is "Where do I sign up to get training to be as good as you!" That really is awesome! I am glad I got to hear that from someone who actually did it and not from someone who knows someone who has a friend that knew the guy...

 

[TEXASLAWMAN]

You are the first one I have ever heard of to be able to do that on that large of a property. All I have to say is "Where do I sign up to get training to be as good as you!" That really is awesome! I am glad I got to hear that from someone who actually did it and not from someone who knows someone who has a friend that knew the guy...

Lol It was a combination of trapping and shooting. The final nail in the coffin was the night vision and thermal.

Like I said we didn't eradicate them more likely drove them from the property. But we walked every inch of the property found the nest and hunted night and day almost every weekend. They got no rest and no safe haven.

Another property only 2,000 acres we did not trap but only hunted. The first time I hunted it there were five 20-30 hog sounders in the first pasture alone. Now there has only been one case of the hogs rooting up anything on the property within the last two years. I hunted the area and took several members of a sounder out reducing it to just a couple.

I was told it could not be done and I believed it. But this has been my experience on three property's now. As you can see I only have 968 confirmed hog kills which is nothing compared to many who kill hundreds in a day, especially with helicopters and such. I'm sure many more died from wounds that I did not find but still not enough to explain why they disappeared.

These are the things I did.

- I watched the sounders for a while before I shot looking for the leaders

- Sows were the priority. (especially the alpha)

- Piglets were killed as many as possible

- Hunted nesting areas by day fields by night.

Don't know why it worked kinda wish it didn't because my dead hog counter is not rising fast enough.

 

[Brian Shaffer]

As for the population estimates, I have no idea what survey and sampling techniques A&M is using or what their latest estimates are. TPWD is not actually conducting the population surveys but they do provide funding to A&M to do them. I do know that regardless of the population range they are given, the media always uses the largest number possible in their articles.

I think they would like to use the largest estimates, because those are the most sensational, but the largest estimates I have seen are much more than the 2.6 million in the article noted in the OP. TPWD may not be conducting the counts, but they report them as factual and use them for their agendas. Back in 2011, Higginbotham was suggesting that the population may be as high as 3.4 million, for example, but the media generally doesn't use this number.
http://feralhogs.tamu.edu/2011/05/agrilife-today-busting-feral-hog-myths/

It was back in 2005 or 2007 when the $50 million damage estimates came out. That number continues to be recycled despite the hog population growing by some 18-21% per year. Hogs should be doing a LOT more damage than that.

So when it comes to numbers being reported, they are based on estimates that as you note you don't understand how they are obtained. I don't either other than each year new information comes out and it does not jive with previous information and population growth claims. The point here is that something isn't right with the numbers being claimed. I am not sure anyone has any realistic estimate of the hog population in Texas or how much damage they are really doing and its financial ramifications.