Does anyone want to rank thermal scopes?

[Rookie]

I know it's kind of subjective, but it would help. A lot of people ask me for my opinion since they know i have an IR Hunter. Of course, I recommend that, and they ask me what else. I'd like to get input from the people on here that has had experience with multiple thermal scopes. What would be your top five or ten? I think picture quality is more important than price, so, if you could keep that in mind, I'd appreciate it. Of course, I could be wrong, so feel free to correct me.

Thanks.

 

[wigwamitus]

The usual problem with "best" lists is that they are not including any sort of "requirements" ...

Re-stated ... for me .. the "best" widget ... is the one that meets the requirements at the lowest cost (since why spend more if your requirements are met at a lower cost).

So unfortunately, I don't think it is as simple as a "best" list.

==
I do get a lot of people showing up on other forums thinking they might want a thermal clipon ... and it might be worth having a sticky that explains the pro and con of thermal clipons ... but of course, do people read stickies ??
==
I also have several BAE OASYS cored devices (of which the TEO devices are included) and they do have a lot of "shock and awe" to the image ... mostly because of the rendering of the terrain. But do they even have "the best" image in all conditions? (best image to me meaning I can ID the critter, faster and a greater distance) ... I'm not sure about that. The Zeus Standard 3x, 75mm 640(30) I had .. had an extremely clear image and could see a single hand warmer at 500yds and the ir-hunter could not on one night. This was during pasture burning season and a lot of smoke was in the air between me with the thermals and the handwarmer on the target.
So also saying the "best image" is not a linear construct at least not in all conditions. The cores, the lenses, the displays all matter, but so does the software ... and the OASYS software might be trying to optimize some aspects of the image whereas the FLIR software might be trying to optimize other aspects.
In great thermal conditions like I had last night (after a day of sun seemed to dry everything out and evaporate some of the water in the air ... the thermal conditions were fantastic ... but for the prior week, misty rainy every hour of every day ... the critters have been floating in a sea of grey ... and no thermal is great in those conditions ... I could still see the critters but not the terrain ... trees only "detectable" when a critter passed behind one relative to me. I couldn't even see buildings beyond about 50yds and then just barely. The worst thermal conditions I've seen. And my POS ATN ODIN was doing as well as the Mk3 35mm in those conditions.

But seeing beautiful terrain with the thermal is not a primary requirement for me. Being able to ID the critters faster at a greater distance is. And being able to do that at the lowest cost is. So bottom line ... my "best" list might be different from yours ...

What about a "good enough for hunting hogs" list ... would that be different ?

 

[Rookie]

You're right, it's hard to define best, and I agree with the hunting list...

Top five or ten hunting thermals?

Again, I realize this would include a lot of user bias, but I'm trying to get a list to point people in the right direction. My personal experience is limited to my IR Hunter and an ATN THOR. I wouldn't recommend ATN, but I have no experience to point people in other directions.

 

[wigwamitus]

Trying to list out the criteria I think about in a thermal ...

==
01 - Image (ability to detect and ID critters of interest faster at greater distances), resolution
02 - Cost
03 - Warranty, service, maintanability, ruggedness
04 - handiness, weight, length ...
05 - Useability, controls
06 - Power, ease of changing batts, availabiilty of battery packs
07 - images ability to store and download still images
08 - Video ability to support video DVR
09 - Reticles
10 - inclination, compass
11 - integrated range finder (reticle, stadiametric, actual LRF)
12 - Helmet mountable?
13 - Clipon ?
14 - mount ( support for stoner or bolt gun ? )
15 - Recoil rating

Others ? I doubt I've thought of everything !

Oh haha

16 - Magnification !

(arguably magnification and resolution sort of go together .. but listing them separately)

17 - Aut0 versus fixed focus

 

[ZenArchery]

Didn't Todd do this a while back? Maybe with the flood of new products its time for a new one.

 

[Rookie]

I'll start...

1. IR Hunter MK3
2. Pulsar
3. Armasight
4. Flir 233 - looks promising but still too new to form a solid opinion.
5. ATN - don't bother.

Again, I only have experience with 1&5, so Pulsar could be ranked lower than armasight - i only ranked it higher because I looked into buying one. Also, I only listed one actual model. That's because it's the only one I have experience with, so there's lots of models that could fill in the blanks.

Or, how about ranking by brands?

IR HUNTER
1. IR Hunter MK3 60mm
2. REAP IR
3. IR Hunter MK3 35mm
4. IR Hunter MK2 35mm
5. IR Hunter MK2 19mm

PULSAR
?

ARMASIGHT
?

FLIR
?

 

[wigwamitus]

Might be 3-4 categories of use case:

101 - Handheld spotter
102 - Helmet mountable spotter
103 - Hunting in close terrain (need more FOV)
104 - Hunting in open terrain (need more magnification and beyond 300yds need more ballistic support in reticle)

I guess even the spotting can be broken down between close terrain (1x) and open terrain (> 1 x)

 

[Bocephus]

I don't think there's any need to complicate, so I'll play from what I've used and owned. I know ATN gets crap, but I've used three and all have worked great! So here's the list from what I've used:

1 - MKII - (currently own)
2- Zues Pro 100
3-Zeus 640 42mm
4-Thor HD 640 50mm
5-Thor 640 - 50mm
5-Thor 320 35mm (or something like that, older thor)
6 - Zeus 336 42mm

Out of that bunch the only one that broke was the Zeus 336. So I can't bash ATN too much. Plenty of hogs and coytes met their demise due to the Thor.

 

[Rookie]

I don't think there's any need to complicate, so I'll play from what I've used and owned. I know ATN gets crap, but I've used three and all have worked great! So here's the list from what I've used:

1 - MKII - (currently own)
2- Zues Pro 100
3-Zeus 620 42mm
4-Thor HD 640 50mm
5-Thor 640 - 50mm
5-Thor 320 35mm (or something like that, older thor)
6 - Zeus 336 42mm

Out of that bunch the only one that broke was the Zeus 336. So I can't bash ATN too much. Plenty of hogs and coytes met their demise due to the Thor.

There we go! Thank you! Who else wants to pitch in?

 

[wigwamitus]

... with the flood of new products its time for a new one ...

That's the other issue ... the "list" will be obsolete roughly each quarter ...

 

[Bocephus]

we get it wigwamitus take the post for face value and have a little fun.

 

[Rookie]

we get it wigwamitus ;)take the post for face value and have a little fun.

Let's try it this way...

Wigwamitus, you and i are close friends and I've decided i want a thermal scope. I have no experience with them, but I know you've had quite a few. So, I give you a call...

"Hey, close friend. I'm wanting to buy a thermal scope to put on my rifle. In your opinion, what's your top five with one being the best?"

And... Go!

 

[wigwamitus]

001 TEO mkii 19mm ... has bae oasys core best general image in general conditions (faster detect/id of smaller critters at greater distances ...
19mm lens has best fov which means greater situational awareness for close in ... so if facing group of sounders and some of them run in on you you will pick them up faster ... lowest cost of entry point for BAE OASYS cored device. TEO has solid customer service ... they will fix it if it breaks for reasonable cost and in reasonable time frame. Used ones available in the mid $4000 range.

002 - Pulsar Apex 50mm 384 2x
Almost half the cost of the mkii 19mm ... if cost is an issue these scopes will get the job done ... more than fine for hogs. Used ones available in the mid-$2000 range ...

003 - TEO mkii 35mm ... next step up on the TEO line ... 35mm lens has 2.5x versus 1.5x magnification on the 19mm ... but 19mm has 22 FOV versus 12 FOV on the 35mm ... so trade off is magnification for FOV ... so better for more open terrain ...

004 - PAS29 10mm ... mounts on to the PVS-14 and provides fused image ... fastest engagement inside 150yds ... which is my limit for standing unsupported with the ir-laser against hog or yote sized targets ... coons/opossum try to get inside 100yds. No need to flipup the NODS ... just point and shoot with the laser. But in open terrain not so good ... cattle bedded down at night at 400yds might be rocks ... cost in the same range as the TEO Mk3 35mm

005 - TEO mkiii 60mm ... high end on the teo line ... 60mm lens 4.5 magnification ... 7 degree FOV ... extremely limited FOV ... not good for close in ... not good for hogs inside 100yds IMHO ... multiple sounder scenario you might not be able to pick them up running in .. but for long distance spotter in open terrain only the patrol 250xr is better and only because it has focus ring.

010 - TEO SNIPE 35mm clipon ... supports up to 6x with clarity and 8x with some fuzz ... too much weight forward on the gun for hunting ... needs tripod or stick ... reduces your mobility ... but only thermal clipon under $10k I would want to buy.

099 - BAE UTC-x ... 70mm(?) clipon ... supports up to 15x magnification on day scope with clarity ... up to 20x with a little fuzz ... not good for hunting ... too much weight forward on the gun ... need tripod or at least stick ... good for long distance heated steel ... or maybe 500yd coyote shot (about the only critter I would shoot at, at night at that distance) ... cost too high for hunting !

 

[TEXASLAWMAN]

There are many different variables, like terrain, humidity, range, and recordng. options. For example the MkIII 60mm is better for longer shots in open areas, while the xp38, and xp50 would be better in thick cover. Trijicon has the best image but in high humidity I was surprised to see the pulsars looked as good or better to my eyes. So the "best" would by subject to many things. I always ask people many questions to figure out which is best for their paticular needs.

Now without a doubt in my opinion the xp50 is the best bang for the buck with its price combination of features, battery, and image.

 

[Taco]

I still say the Zeus 3 75 640 is as good as anyone would ever need in a hog hunting scope. What does it really lack as a meat scope? It’s the standard. Had a 42 640....not enough mag. Have a Reap-ir.....not enough mag. My trusty little beater 336 predator has stacked up the pork and for the price bought used consider it a great value. This is coming from a guy that could care less about video recording and auto WiFi Facebook video upload or whatever.

 

[wigwamitus]

The 3x 75mm 640(30) Zeus std I had was the best Armasight image I've seem ... it even beat the Zeus Pro 100 4x, 640(60) I sold the std to "upgrade" to.
Armasight said it was the 60hz that fuzzed up the image on the Pro ... but I suspect it was more than that. The Zeus Pro was great for distances out a ways .. but inside 100yds it was almost unuseable for me .. and I need that <100yds so I sold it and wound up with the Mk3 35mm 2.5x and love it. On pure detection I think the Armasights beat the Mk3 ... but on "smoothness" or "terrain" ... somewhere in that area ... the Mk3 wins ...

 

[TEXASLAWMAN]

The 3x 75mm 640(30) Zeus std I had was the best Armasight image I've seem ... it even beat the Zeus Pro 100 4x, 640(60) I sold the std to "upgrade" to.
Armasight said it was the 60hz that fuzzed up the image on the Pro ... but I suspect it was more than that. The Zeus Pro was great for distances out a ways .. but inside 100yds it was almost unuseable for me .. and I need that <100yds so I sold it and wound up with the Mk3 35mm 2.5x and love it. On pure detection I think the Armasights beat the Mk3 ... but on "smoothness" or "terrain" ... somewhere in that area ... the Mk3 wins ...

It was the 60hz I have several of both the 100mm is just as good with more magnification.

 

[whitehotmist]

How far can you shoot to reliably, what are you shooting at? If it's yotes around 250yds, then I think a Pulsar XQ50 is all you need.. unless you have money to burn, then go with the XP50 for the better field of view. I have an XQ50 and it's about all I need for 250 and under on yotes..