Thermal Scope Advice & Questions

[Senko]

Very new to this so apologies for the ignorance and the numerous questions. I’ve searched this forum and others but couldn’t find anything directly on point, although there is a lot of helpful advice.

A little background: Primary use will be hog hunting at night in large fields (100+ acre fields). I plan to buy a 1x scanner on the lower end for just doing quick scans of big fields on property while driving around, then stalking up with thermal scope on rifle and pvs-14 on helmet.

Numerous questions, feel free to pick and choose. Thanks in advance.

1. I would rather not have to have a dedicated thermal gun, so would like to use QD mount to switch out day optics. How well would this hold zero? Would I need to re-sight each change with the thermal?
   
   
2. If so, maybe I should go clip on? But I’ve heard clip on gives a really low FOV so may not be ideal. Is clip on a bad way to go?
   
   
3. Let’s say you have $7-8K to spend on a thermal scope (but would be even better to spend less). I just want a great thermal but I do not need bells and whistles. More of a work horse, something that is relatively user friendly. What is your pick?
   
   
4. PVS-14 with helmet – there are so many options here in terms of helmet attachments, counterweights, etc. Do any retailers offer fully made and outfitted helmets?
   
   
5. Is it possible to continue this hobby during the warmer months or does the warm weather really kill the effectiveness of the thermal?
6. I’m going to be buying all of this equipment soon, and would like to go with one retailer – if you are a retailer and willing to give a price cut for a big bulk order like this, let me know

Thanks

 

[Curly Shuffle]

IR Hunter,,, Armasight. Can not go wrong with either one of those. Good luck and happy hunting!! BANG BANG!!

 

[wigwamitus]

... I would rather not have to have a dedicated thermal gun, so would like to use QD mount to switch out day optics. How well would this hold zero? Would I need to re-sight each change with the thermal? ...

I would say yes you should always check zero when you change optics ... though with some clipons ... theory says no ... in practice you will be off a bit ... on the other hand ... if most shots are under 100yds "a bit" might not matter much for a hog ...
==

If so, maybe I should go clip on? But I’ve heard clip on gives a really low FOV so may not be ideal. Is clip on a bad way to go?

You heard clipon gives low FOV? Oh my ... my Apollo clipon was 42mm and 1x ... so much higher FOV than Zeus 75mm 3x ...
==
Bottomline 1x clipon in front of a 3x day scope gives fine FOV and magnification is useful if unit is 640 ... also dedicated scope that is 2x or 3x gives good magnification and useable FOV. Both will work.

But with the clipon the day scope is "zooming in on the pixels" ... so you loose some clarity ... which might not matter if you've already IDd your targets and satisfied your ROE to the point where you've already made the "shoot" decision. But if you will also use the scope on the rifle to finalize the "shoot" decision ... then the dedicated scope with 2x or 3x magnification ... that is OPTICAL magnification will give clearer image than the 1x clipon with the 3x day scope "zooming in on the pixels" ... all other things being equal.

I started with clipon and then switched to dedicated thermals for these reasons.
==

... PVS-14 with helmet – there are so many options here in terms of helmet attachments, counterweights, etc. Do any retailers offer fully made and outfitted helmets?

I'm sure someone will make you up one !!! If there is money to be made ... someone will step up to make it!
Or just get Team Wendy with rails and shroud, then you just need a mount. I have the norotos TATM ... works fine ..

Norotos TATM Titanium Advanced Tactical Mount - MOD Armory

 

[wigwamitus]

If you will ever consider using duals I would go ahead and get a dual mount, like the Mod Armory IC dual mount ... works great with 2 PVS-14s and has "flip out" capability.

Night Vision Helmet Mount IC D-14 Dual PVS-14 - MOD Armory

So you get the TW and those two mounts and you are good to go!
==

Is it possible to continue this hobby during the warmer months or does the warm weather really kill the effectiveness of the thermal?

Thermals have issues in warm and issues in cold ... I just went out and my thermal fogged up ... the variables aren't just "warm" or "cold" other variables as well ... I use thermals all year long ... some nights they work better than others ... heavy mist is the toughest ... but having both thermal and i2 capability gives you the ability to work around many issues.

==

I’m going to be buying all of this equipment soon, and would like to go with one retailer – if you are a retailer and willing to give a price cut for a big bulk order like this, let me know

Hopefully Night Combat Solutions and ******************* will both zoom in on this ... but also remember it is SHOT week, so I know TCT might not be as responsive this week and NCS had a medical procedure last week, so they might not be as responsive either ... but if you can wait until next week ... then I'm sure they will be ready to help you. In the mean time ... keep reading and asking ... this forum is the place to go ... because these guys actually USE this "crap" all the time ...

 

[hdfireman]

1. I would rather not have to have a dedicated thermal gun, so would like to use QD mount to switch out day optics. How well would this hold zero? Would I need to re-sight each change with the thermal?
Thanks

This is my take on #'s 1-3. Changing back and forth all depends on the mount you are using. Most claim 1 MOA but depends on the scope you are going with. You can verify it once you have the 2 scopes buy zeroing one, remove it, install the other, zero and then repeat changing them out to make sure it is repeatable.

You do give up image quality with the the more magnification you run with clip-on's and they are more expensive. A clip-on is great for wanting to use it no more than one weapon, making any of them thermal.

With a $7-8K budget my advice is build a second upper.... wait.... buy a second upper, hint hint and put a dedicated thermal scope on it. It will cost you less than a clip-on and you don't have to worry about returning to zero. On top of that you will get better performance.

Or you can not buy the handheld thermal spotter and get a clip-on and use it for a spotter until you're ready to shoot then mount it in front of the scope. I have done this at times and it can be a pain.

4.PVS-14 with helmet – there are so many options here in terms of helmet attachments, counterweights, etc. Do any retailers offer fully made and outfitted helmets?
Thanks

Any of us vendors on here will be able to help you get what you need for the correct setup

5.Is it possible to continue this hobby during the warmer months or does the warm weather really kill the effectiveness of the thermal?
Thanks

If you get a quality thermal it will still be very much functional during the warmer months

Contact me via phone,email or PM and give me your wish list or ask any questions and I'll help however I can.

 

[JPK]

My advice is to buy a dedicated upper, hint, hint, see above post, and a dedicated scope. When I was looking, the price difference between a dedicated scope and an equally capable true clip pays for the upper and some. I would also suggest using a remote battery pack for the scope, mounted to the butt stock or handguard. It will give all night performance with out battery changes, and cut expenses because it will be rechargeable.

I would suggest the 35mm IR Defense Hunter MKII, or, if the additional software features are important to you, the 35mm MK III. Simple, easy to master operating system, easy to zero, retains zero, great rechargeable battery pack available from Ultimate Night Vision.

A 1x spotter will do the trick, and the Pulsar HD 19A works great. Before you commit to a 1x spotter, I suggest looking at the Pulsar Quantum XD 38A, which is 2x and will allow IDing hogs vs deer, cows or other critters at greater range, and it sounds like your terrain is more suitable for the 2x.

If decide to switch optics back and forth, the MKII and MKIII have Larue mounts, which are as good as they get wrt returning to zero.

A helmet is easy to set up with a counter weight, and counter weight preference is a personal thing. For example, I prefer more counterweight as a percentage of my night vision set up's weight than is typically recommended. I have found, if you don't mind not being one of the cool guys, that magazines work great as counterweights. So, get a surplus 20 or 30rnd mag pouch, a handful of wire ties and a couple of mags. Load the mags to the required weight, or unload as required, have a ready "last resort" source of back up ammo if you need it. Don't forget to add a couple of last resort batteries too, for your thermal(s) and PVS 14.

I agree with Wiggy regarding a potential dual set up. If you don't think your going to ever go with duals or mount a thermal to your helmet in addition to a PVS 14 I would suggest a Norotos RHNO II dovetail mount and a Norotos dual dovetail adapter in lieu of a horn set up.

A good thermal works well enough even in high temp, high humidity conditions. Critters still pop, though range and resolution might suffer.

For your scope, stick with 640 resolution if you can. If that is going to be an issue IR Defense is going to come out with a 10 micron 320 unit that is supposed to provide most of the performance of the 640 17 micron units.

My 2 cents!

JPK

 

[wigwamitus]

Let’s say you have $7-8K to spend on a thermal scope (but would be even better to spend less). I just want a great thermal but I do not need bells and whistles. More of a work horse, something that is relatively user friendly. What is your pick?

I started with one thermal clipon 1x, 42mm 336(60). In those days, that ran $5,500 ... I think they are about $1k less now a days.

Then sold that and got:
1x, 19mm, 640(30) ... which either be used helmet mounted or rifle mounted. To my surprise it has spent most of its time on .22lr being a rat slayer.
2x, 50mm, 384(50) ... rifle scope
3x, 75mm, 384(50) ... rifle scope
So the two rifle scopes I have now together ran about $7,500 and I would call them "work horses" ... and having two, means if one goes down I still have one ... and if buddy forgets his, I have one for him also.

I prefer the idea of 2 units that will get the job done, versus one super duper unit. But I might be in the extreme minority on that point