Echo1 on bow

normAK

New Member
Just bought a bow and I am thinking about mounting my Sig Echo1 thermal on it. Has anyone done this?
 

Tmm

LSB Member
Yes it’s been done. Was good idea, but really not worth effort. Took what seems like 6 hours to get set up, just as long to get sighted. If you could figure a way to mount upright it will make it much easier.... left and right won’t be up and down, and vice versa..........
 

normAK

New Member
I saw the BSA Archery red dot mount and didn't like the fact that the sight ends up sitting sideways. Then I found the Messer Accu-Mount system shown here in this picture. The bullet points below are taken from the web sight for the mount - Messer Accu-Mount - messeropticsaccumount.JPG
  • At only 4.3 oz. the ACCU-MOUNT is the smallest and lightest mounting system on the market today.
  • The ACCU-MOUNT is so universal that it fits any right or left handed bow or mounts in the front or rear of your riser.
  • The ACCU-MOUNT uses the quiver mounting holes on your bow then relocates them to a new location so you are still able to mount a quiver.
  • Install the ACCU-MOUNT in minutes and we even provide the tools and the mounting screws.The ACCU-MOUNT is fully adjustable with radial and lateral movement. Set it and forget it.
  • The ACCU-MOUNT is made from billet aircraft aluminum.The ACCU-MOUNT has been C.N.C. machined to aircraft tolerances.
 

FrankT

Destin FL
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LoneStarBoars Supporter
I think that is an excellent use for the echo, bow or crossbow, good luck!
 

deltav

LSB Member
I've tried just about every method of hunting at night with a bow including the Sig Echo. It did not work well and was too heavy. Image quality and field of view were an issue and difficult to zero. Also, I don't like anything very heavy mounted to my bow. I built an adjustable bracket and actually had it sighted well enough to shoot a 3D hog target several times but not a great setup. In all fairness, I didn't spend a great deal of time with it because I didn't want to scratch the unit in case I decided to return it. It is way too expensive for what you get IMO. Also tried the Torrey Pines unit without success. I have high hopes to make the Q14b work if it ever comes out and actually has a reticle. The hogs where I hunt are super skittish and a bow or feeder light doesn't work so I had to develop another way to hunt them. Even when you're able to light them up, It's difficult to aim due to the light diffraction in the peep. It's actually more accurate for me to get a consistent anchor and remove the peep. For years now I've been using a Q14 with a special helmet mount I made for bow string clearance and a laser mounted to my riser. Aiming is accomplish by looking through my left eye. It takes lots of practice and good technique to shoot a bow with a laser however. It's similar to shooting a rifle with the scope on 10x while shooting free hand. It is a very effective way to stay undetected but can be a little cumbersome. Recently I've changed to using my Sony night shot camera with IR illuminator. I have it mounted on a camera arm (not on the bow) out in front of me and when I reach a solid anchor I use the camera screen to aim using my laser. It's actually very effective. I've also tried to put my iPhone or another camera behind my 14 but there is too much bloom from the laser. This is not a mobile way to hunt and works best from a tree stand or ground blind. I'll post a video of this method soon. Here is a video using my helmet mounted 14. All light sources are IR in this video including laser. This was filmed with the same camera I use now for aiming. If anyone has come up with or is using a better method, please share. I'm always looking for more effective ways to improve bow hunting in the dark.
 
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RattlesnakeDan

San Antonio Texas
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That was great! A lot of effort to get that setup dialed in...worth it!
 

ZenArchery

LSB Active Member
SUS VENATOR CLUB
LoneStarBoars Supporter
I've used the same mount. The issue I had was trying to keep the thing zero'd. The problems I foresee with the system is what is going to be your rear aperture or alignment. I believe the echo is 1x or 2x. You are going to have to find the right peep magnification or enhancer to line up properly. The problem with those peeps at night is humidity.
The biggest issue was balancing the bow in my hand while shooting. I tried counter balances and other devices.

So in collaboration with you. I would get a long A2A bow.
I would mount your echo as far forward as possible.
I'd go to a 3D store and have them help you with the right clarification peep.
Good luck and keep us posted.

3872B510-891E-4BB8-81C5-8E168934B2EA-613-00000037D799C549.jpg
 

deltav

LSB Member
That was great! A lot of effort to get that setup dialed in...worth it!

Yep Dan, you're correct. It did take a lot of effort to get sighted in. Almost ruined my shoulder in the process. Finally went from the IR laser to a red laser and is much easier to sight in and zero can be checked with my sight pin. The red laser doesn't seem to bother the hogs either. Just have to be conscious where the laser is pointing while drawing your bow. I don't like a bunch of crap on my bow so that's why I use this method. I do wish it was more mobile however. I was fortunate to have a bow where the sight pin mounting holes are tapped all the way through the riser. This allowed me to mount a small and lightweight Crimson Trace Railmaster on the inside of the riser. The mount I made allows me to have a clear sight picture to my pin sight and sill have arrow clearance. Also by mounting it lower and inside the riser it's more in line with the arrow flight. It's actually very accurate.
Bow Laser Mount.JPG
 
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RattlesnakeDan

San Antonio Texas
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I guess no use for a peep sight then. So is it now strictly a night rig or can you see the laser good enough during the day to use it?
 

deltav

LSB Member
I've used the same mount. The issue I had was trying to keep the thing zero'd. The problems I foresee with the system is what is going to be your rear aperture or alignment. I believe the echo is 1x or 2x. You are going to have to find the right peep magnification or enhancer to line up properly. The problem with those peeps at night is humidity.
The biggest issue was balancing the bow in my hand while shooting. I tried counter balances and other devices.

So in collaboration with you. I would get a long A2A bow.
I would mount your echo as far forward as possible.
I'd go to a 3D store and have them help you with the right clarification peep.
Good luck and keep us posted.

The peep wasn't the big issue other than light diffraction. If the Echo were parallax free the peep wouldn't play as big a role. It didn't appear to be when I was shooting it or at least not at a short distance similar to bow range. Getting the right mount, field of view and extra weight making the bow unbalanced were the issues I had as you mentioned. I was able to make it work with the mount I made and a regular peep but wasn't an ideal method for me. The laser has been much more effective and accurate.

You are correct about the clerifiers and verifiers.....they can fog up and get dirty. Also, any time you look through a lens you are losing light.
 

deltav

LSB Member
I guess no use for a peep sight then. So is it now strictly a night rig or can you see the laser good enough during the day to use it?

Correct. No need for a peep when shooting with the laser. I actually look out of my left eye when shooting the laser due to being left eye dominate. When I open both eyes I see two dots.

You can see the red laser well enough to use on cloudy days. I would assume a green laser would work during sunny days. I always use my sight pin during daylight hours though. I like the laser best in the last 10 minutes of civil twilight when I can still see the hog but lose perspective when looking through the peep.
 
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normAK

New Member
Using the Echo1 will be done without using the peep(and without removing it), since the thermal sight has it's own reticle. Once the mount for the Echo1 is in place, I can attach the Echo1 to the rail for use at night, and remove it during the day so I'm not carrying the extra weight.

Does using the night vision/laser setup require adjusting your draw, in order to accommodate the helmet?
 

normAK

New Member
I understand that the weight of the Echo1 will change the balance of the bow, and if that proves to be a major problem I can just use the same mount with a laser while wearing my night vision monocular.
 

deltav

LSB Member
Using the Echo1 will be done without using the peep(and without removing it), since the thermal sight has it's own reticle. Once the mount for the Echo1 is in place, I can attach the Echo1 to the rail for use at night, and remove it during the day so I'm not carrying the extra weight.

Does using the night vision/laser setup require adjusting your draw, in order to accommodate the helmet?

You will still anchor the same but you have to make sure the mono is mounted to the left for string clearance. It takes some practice and is a little awkward at first. That's why I started using my camera screen for aiming.

You may have issues getting the Echo to return to zero each time you remount it. If you normally use a peep your anchor point will be off if you shoot with the Echo not looking through the peep as you normally do. This will cause you to be inaccurate. I would suggest using the peep with the echo as not to change your form. Plus that will give you two points of aim which is better even with the peep light diffraction. If I recall, it was an inconsistent setup at best. As I mentioned earlier, I believe the Echo is not parallax free...certainly not at 20 yards.

Good luck, hope you get it to work. Keep us updated.
 

normAK

New Member
Thanks for all the info, deltav. It sounds like both the echo1 and the night vision approach have challenges and problems. I'm starting to think maybe I would be better off just clamping on one of my green lights to my stabilizer and using it with my illuminated pins.

I have already checked out how this looks and feels and it seems quite shoot-able to me. I have used green lights on rifles to take hogs in the past, I guess I was just lucky that those particular pigs weren't pressured enough to become green/red light sensitive.
 
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